Talk:Strategy:Tournament:Early rounds

Maybe I'm not getting it, but I find this page pointless and incorrect. Anybody think it has merit? If not, I'm going to edit it away. SheridanCat 19:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * MarkT 06:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC) Hmmm. He seems to be saying that you should never go all-in during the first round(s) of a tournament regardless of your cards.  That does, indeed, seem wrong to me.  But a discussion of patience during early rounds of large tournaments might not be out of place in a tournament strategy area like this (e.g. TJ Cloutier's general tourney advice).  Intelligent patience, of course, not talking about folding pocket aces.  Example: folding pocket jacks to an early all-in might indeed be considered wise, unless you have enough experience with the opponent to be able to estimate your odds at being ahead.
 * So, maybe just a wholesale rewrite?
 * Thanks, Mark. I've done heavy editing on these other posts, I think I can whip this one up with your thoughts as guidance.  Sounds good.  SheridanCat 04:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that a wholesale rewrite about early tournament rounds is worthwhile.  Meanwhile, I'm going to rename this and attach a new template idea I just thought of to show that the strategy is dubious. - 71.192.205.0 06:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

"No two ways about it, going all in during the early stages of a tournament is very a questionable play." - Well, I agree, with exceptions if the starting stack size is outrageously short or you've ended up losing most of your chips early. But I get the sense the author doesn't understand why huge all-in overbets are bad. If you can get all the chips in with AA, of course you always want to do so even if it means a 1/5 chance of busting out.

There may be a few non-cash considerations, e.g. you've waited 20 years to play in the WSOP and the weighted negative utility of busting out in the first orbit would offset any cash expectation in not getting all the chips in. But continuing to play that scared will shorten your stay too, so you'd need a huge negative utility for an early exit to make up for that unless you plan to settle down and "play poker" after an hour or so. Anyway, this is just f a geeky academic exercise. I don't care how big the tournament; if I had the bankroll to enter it in the first place, I'm staking my stack on the aces.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing your mods, Sheridan - PhilipR 08:04, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Poker is random enough to occasionally reward poor players and punish even good ones. One of the first things a poker player must learn is that a positive ROI is measured over the long haul, not as the result of one tournament (or game or hand).

To advise beginners to ignore the overall positive EV from pocket aces and have a superstitious behavior to fold them seems like voodoo poker to me. It may cost you a bust-out at times, of course. But as a general strategy, not being willing to risk your tournament life with AA pre-flop seems ludicrous.

That's my $0.02 ShhQuiet


 * I took out at least the most questionable recommendations. I'd still like to have Sheridan improve this article if he has time; he's very good at writing explanations for beginners.   Of course you or anyone else should also feel free to flesh this out.   I was mostly just trying to fix the most egregious claims. :)   - PhilipR 04:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually most turnament articles in the pokerwiki are not good.
 * Then please feel free to edit existing articles or write new ones. SheridanCat 23:51, 30 March 2007 (UTC)