Talk:Omaha hi-lo

The above text was written by someone with little understanding of long term poker playing. Two aces in Pot Limit Omaha 8 whether suited or unsuited is a strong hand and more importantly, profitable. When you are deciding what hands to play in any poker game, you should choose ones that win money in the long term. For example, pocket eights in a 10 handed holdem game win 13% of the time where the 10 players don't fold. This means that in any one hand where you put $10, long term you get back $13. This is no different in Pot limit omaha/8. Two aces will earn you money, it is a profitable hand preflop and should be raised irrespective of the other two cards. This play preflop earns you money in the long term netting around a 15% return for your 10% investment in a 10 handed game. How you play the hand profitably post flop is where most players fall down. Holding a deuce for low plus having your ace suited makes your hand easier to play and adds value to your hand. Choosing good starting cards will make your decisions easier after the flop. For example, it is easy to raise when you have an ace high flush, it is harder to know when to raise correctly holding a king high flush. Likewise on an 678 board it is easy to raise A29T (known as nut/nut), it is harder to raise A359 (second best hand for high and low) since you may be losing to A2 and 9T or beating A4 and 45). Good omaha/8 players can raise more hands preflop knowing that raises are profitable since their better understanding of the game means they can correctly raise or fold after the flop and keep their plays profitable. Where the original poster falls down is that AA unsuited is a difficult hand to play after the flop when you don't hit an ace, but the hand itself is still profitable if played by a knowledgable player. - Ribbo


 * I'm moving this here becuase I think it's best to hold a discussion in the proper place. I've added the "dubious" header to the Profitability section.  I think Ribbo's discussion also has some problems that need to be ironed out before the original text is modified. SheridanCat 17:43, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I wrote the passage about AAxx with low-limit O8 in mind.  It should no doubt be adapted for PLO8, but I'll defend my original sentiment; bare aces is a hand that HE-to-O8 converts overplay all the time, both in limit and in PL.  (I can probably find a Krieger/Tenner and maybe even a Zee reference to back me up.)   I agree that the problem is how people play AAxx postflop which is why I called it a drawing hand, i.e., a draw to top set.   I also agree that experienced players could handle AAxx unimproved in a profitable manner, but I didn't do my first pass of the article for these experienced players.   I could probably have worded it more precisely.   Feel free to clean it up. - PhilipR 18:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with the original text, myself. I think a naked AA is not a great hand.  Profitable in a 10-way pot?  Probably.  But O/8 should be about scooping, not trying to win the high with unimproved aces.  I'm going to remove the "dubious" flag and ask Ribbo to write an article rather than a rebuttal.  SheridanCat 18:36, 12 February 2007 (UTC)